Oppo hivemind, Yaris opinions?

"thejustache" (thejustache) 02/26/2018 at 10:30 • Filed to: None

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Did my taxes last night and realized I’ll be getting a good deal more back than I had expected. My wife and I had been talking about getting another small fuel sipping car to use for commuting/errands, and now we can make that a reality. I love my stage 2 outback XT, but my wife is a little less fond of its 19mpg on premium gas and droning exhaust on longer trips. Thankfully we worked it out and I’ll be keeping it as my fun car/winter vehicle/truck substitute (putting a trailer hitch on it too) - but I need to find a cheap to buy, cheap to run used daily for about $3500.

My first thought is a 5 speed Yaris hatch. I pretty much want something as minimal and basic as possible, and a Yaris is... well... a car, and nothing more. On our honeymoon last year my wife and I rented a 5 speed Opel Corsa in Ireland and had a ton of fun wringing it out on narrow back roads. Seeing as we can’t get one of those here I figured a Yaris might fit the bill. However, I haven’t driven one and don’t know much about them so I figured I’d ask the Oppo hivemind for ideas.

Seems like Craigslist has a number of them in my price range at around 95k-140k miles and I believe they are timing chain engines so no big service points to worry about. Is that true? Anything to look out for on these? Are there any handling mods out there for the Yaris? With my XT to deal with winter and give me my power fix, I might ultimately try to make a tarmac carver out of the Yaris because I find it hard not to modify things in some way...

Open to other ideas as well, as long as they are small, manual and good on gas. Bonus points for being a hatchback. The longer I can go dailying a car that doesn’t cost us much the better chance I’ll have of her being on board with me getting more out there cars on the side. It was a little tough when over the last year my XT lunched a transmission and needed a full exhaust replacement and I had to fix it right away just to keep going to work, yet my wife’s beat up old Hyundai has never asked for more than $25 brake shoes and a few $20 tanks of 87 octane!

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 10:45

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I don’t know about mod availability, but the Yaris is an Honest Small Car™. It does small car things like a good small car, it gets small car fuel economy, it handles like a small car, and the 5spd is a pretty ok transmission, asside from the ubiquitous Small Car Clutch Of Minimal Effort And Feedback®. They don’t seem terribly prone to terminal rust, and I know several people who have over 200k miles on their Yariss (Yari?) Without issue. I believe there used to be a one-make Yaris cup race serries, so there must be handling mods out there somewhere.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/jalopnik.com/this-adorably-intense-japanese-yaris-race-is-everything-1822197728/amp

fhrblig > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 10:49

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It’s a good enough small car, and it’ll be reliable. I’d say go for it.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 10:50

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How do you like the Outback XT? I’ve been drooling over them for a while now.

Yaris is a fine small car, but honestly in the same segment get yourself a second generation Honda Fit with a manual. Plenty of suspension and brake upgrades available to make it into a real “slow car fast” fun practical car.

chaozbandit > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 10:50

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Do it

Although for ultimate longevity for low cost and fun, a Corolla may be of similar interest.

Chuckles > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 10:51

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I know a few people with Yaris hatchbacks, both 2 and 4 door. I’ve never heard any complaints.

I’d also recommend looking at the Mazda2 hatchback.

I bought a 2012 Fiat 500 last year and I’ve been pretty happy with it, although the backseat isn’t practical for regular use.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 10:52

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Funnily enough a member of my Autocross region is currently looking at replacing his Outback XT with a Yaris. They seem to be good little hatchbacks and there are B-Spec parts available for them too.

Also: R.I.P. Jellybean Mk1

Ash78, voting early and often > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 10:52

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On our honeymoon in 2004, my wife and I rented a 5-speed Vauxhall Corsa hatchback for the week and had a blast wringing it out on the back roads.

Sorry, just had to share! It was such a nice change of pace from so many bloated modern cars. Reminded my of my grandfather’s old 1989 Mazda 323.

Yaris sounds like it would fit the bill. A Honda Fit would be a bit overpriced, but will probably never lose value :D

CalzoneGolem > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 10:54

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I had a rental 5 door when my car was in the shop. I thought it was a fantastic car and even my wife loved it. It feels spacious on the inside and you can drive it flat out all day everyday.

MoCamino > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 10:55

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My wife drives a 2001 Toyota Echo - the US predecessor of the Yaris. It has been a really good car for us. You’re right, the most you can say about it is that it’s “a car”. There isn’t much joy to be had driving it. I will say that while hers is an automatic, having a manual would likely at least make it a little more fun. I’m not sure about the automatics in the Yaris, but the Echo never really seems to be sure what gear it should be in.

With all that said - it has over 320,000 miles on it and is still going strong. It still gets around 37 mpg out on the interstate, and used to push 40. I’ve honestly not done much more maintenance on it than regular oil changes and keeping a clean air filter in it. I have replaced the O2 sensors in it once and had to get a new catalytic convertor installed at around 250,000 miles.

My only gripe with it is that the a/c compressors are weak. (We had the compressor replaced twice before giving up - once at ~150k miles and again around 220k.) We live in southwest Missouri, so the summers get pretty hot and humid. In stop and go traffic all it would really do is blow mildly cool air on you. If you live somewhere with really hot weather, it’s never going to keep you really comfortable.

Dusty Ventures > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/26/2018 at 10:56

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Plot twist, it’s still the same car

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Dusty Ventures 02/26/2018 at 11:01

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I figured they would have had to at least re-shell it. They did a damn good job fixing it if it’s the same shell.

EDIT: You weren’t kidding, though it looks like they replaced about half of it.

thejustache > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 02/26/2018 at 11:01

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I approve of this comment

thejustache > Ash78, voting early and often 02/26/2018 at 11:04

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Glad to hear the recipe of a small light car with a manual never stops being fun! I’ve thought about the fit too, but like you say the resale value on them is a bit higher. I suppose it depends on if I want to eventually sell it, or just drive it until it dies

Dusty Ventures > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig 02/26/2018 at 11:04

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I have an XT and it’s still good enough after 3+ years that I never want to sell it. Visibility is fantastic, the ride is good, it’s comfortable enough that I’ve been able to drive sunrise to well past sunset without getting stiff or sore, there’s more than enough space for pretty much everything (I’ve even slept in it), and when the boost comes on it’s comical. I’ll admit I’ve had to replace a few things (turbo, injectors, radiator, turbo up pipe, power steering pump and rack, plus a few axles and wheel bearings), but mine’s also a high mileage car (I’ll be hitting 200k this year).

Noah - Now with more boost. > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 11:06

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I feel like the answer *really* is Miata here, no? NB maybe

Ash78, voting early and often > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 11:07

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Don’t forget Versa — a bit bigger and softer, but fit 4 adults without complaints. Plus I think there’s a good aftermarket for them due to sharing a platform with Juke.

Dusty Ventures > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 11:15

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Oh hey, I know that Yarse. So here’s what I’ve learned: The Yaris actually has a pretty good chassis. For a basic hatch it’s a solid corner carver and can be decently fun. That said, it’s also seriously gutless and the gearing in the five speed is long, it’s a fuel economy oriented gearbox not an acceleration oriented gearbox. It’s not just slow, it’s 0-60 around 10 seconds slow. Though for what you’d use it for and the solid fuel economy it gives in exchange that might not be a deal breaker. Though personally I’d want to at least drive a Fit before settling on the Yaris

thejustache > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig 02/26/2018 at 11:16

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Hmm, yeah a fit would fit the bill (har har) as well. The resell price on them seems a bit higher, but I guess maybe it’s worth it for the aftermarket?

I honestly love my XT so I’m glad I won’t be getting rid of it. I have done nothing to it handling wise other than new struts in the rear, so it’s a bit of a boat, but with a 3" exhaust and a stage 2 tune it wakes right up and pulls hard under boost. With good snow tires on it I feel confident in whatever weather New England might throw at us, and with the seats down it can hold quite a bit of cargo. Put stuff on the roof bars and it can hold even more... There is definitely something to be said for driving a grandpa spec 2 tone outback that can go WHOMP when you put your foot down and catch a mustang off guard at the drag strip! That said, when you’re pushing extra power through a 13 year old car with 150k on it, stuff is liable to break so I’ll be happy to spread out the wear and make it last a little longer.

Dusty Ventures > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/26/2018 at 11:17

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Yeah, it looked like the Vettekart for a while, it was pretty nuts. I remember when Alan and I towed it to the guy who did the work. He took a loot at and was like “Are you sure you don’t just want to build another car?”

thejustache > MoCamino 02/26/2018 at 11:18

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That seems to be about the ownership experience I’m looking for. I am not really expecting a ton of soul, but hopefully getting a manual can keep it from being truly numbing. A/C performance is a little less important where I am, but having been through southwest Missouri in the summer I can agree it’s important there! Thanks

thejustache > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/26/2018 at 11:20

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What year was that? I know I’ve seen the car in person, but not sure if it was Mk1 or not

thejustache > Dusty Ventures 02/26/2018 at 11:22

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Yeah I’m getting a lot of people suggesting I try a Fit so I’ll probably look into that too. How’s your XT doing? I’m still enjoying mine a lot but the MPGs and frequency with which it sheds parts is going to make it good second car material

cmill189 - sans Volvo > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 11:23

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An ex of mine had a 2-door Yaris hatch. Absolute shit on the highway. Short wheelbase and no cruise made it pretty annoying to drive in a straight line. Absolutely amazing in the city. Super easy to park, great visibility, incredible turning radius and plenty peppy, even with an automatic. Gas mileage is pretty exceptional, they will easily do high 40's. I think the most surprising thing about them is how roomy the interior is for a small car. Tons of storage space and leg room.

OPPOsaurus WRX > Dusty Ventures 02/26/2018 at 11:25

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some Yaris are not like other Yaris

OPPOsaurus WRX > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/26/2018 at 11:26

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i drove that one day a long time ago

thejustache > Noah - Now with more boost. 02/26/2018 at 11:27

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I’ve been waiting for someone to chime in with that! I was considering getting one a couple years ago and maybe should think about it again now. I do feel like getting a second “fun” car might be risking my wife reconsidering her support of my car hobbies. So far she’s been pretty encouraging when something brakes and I want to replace it with a performance part, but if I start doing that to 2 cars I’m not sure what would happen...

thejustache > cmill189 - sans Volvo 02/26/2018 at 11:28

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My commute is all back roads thankfully, so highway cruising isn’t that big a concern for me. I can see them being pretty bad at that for sure...

thejustache > Ash78, voting early and often 02/26/2018 at 11:30

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Hmm... I’ll admit to being a bit prejudiced against things Nissan, especially in that price range... but I haven’t even really looked into a Versa. I suppose it warrants some investigation, thank you!

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 11:32

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Also keep in mind the Fit raced in B-Spec for a while, and Grid.Life has a Spec Fit class at their events now. There’s definitely parts out there for the first two generations.

cmill189 - sans Volvo > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 11:35

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I think one would be great for that. I always wondered what it would be like with some TRD springs and decent tires. It’s the perfect car for full throttle and no speeding. I felt the steering was very direct and responsive too. Not sure if that’s actually true or a trick from the wheelbase and how close you sit to the front tires. Either way, it made for an engaging experience.

Dusty Ventures > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 11:35

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Same boat. In the past 6 months I’ve done the pads and rotors, two wheel bearings, a coil, the turbo up pipe, and a stuck caliper. Meanwhile the fuel economy on my work commute has been down around 18 mpg. I’m planning on getting another car and relegating the Outback to road trips and snow later this year. Definitely keeping her though.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 11:40

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They rolled it at STPR 2014.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Dusty Ventures 02/26/2018 at 11:43

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I don’t know why you would decide to rebuild the shell. It’s not like Yaris are expensive or hard to come by.

thejustache > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/26/2018 at 11:43

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Oh ok! I was there that year so I must have seen it at the parc expose and then missed the fact that they had an off

Noah - Now with more boost. > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 11:52

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Ahhh yeah fair enough, that makes a lot of sense. Depending on your tolerance for working on 90s/2000s BMWs (it kinda sucks), maybe a 3 or a 5 with one of the 2.8 or 3.0 sixes and a stick? Those motors are extremely stout and for $3500 I bet you could find an enthusiast maintained 530i or something with a little over 100k.

thejustache > Noah - Now with more boost. 02/26/2018 at 11:57

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I would like to own another old BMW at some point (My first car was an 84 528e and my second a 90 535i, and I know how reliable those inline sixes can be as the first had over 300k and the second was approaching that). I think gas mileage will be the deciding factor here ultimately, although after a couple years of saving money I will probably want another rear drive car and a BMW would fit the bill nicely

Noah - Now with more boost. > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 12:09

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That’s an epic car history, I oncehad your first car’s chassis with your second car’s motor in it (‘89 E24 as my first car)! My friends old 328is got over 30MPG highway if you kept it under 70

thejustache > Noah - Now with more boost. 02/26/2018 at 12:23

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You had a 635CSi I take it? Those were cool cars. A few years after I had mine the prices for all that stuff started to go up (I paid a few hundred dollars for the 528e for comparison) and they went from fun cars that could be had for very little to cars that were too expensive to buy and wear out commuting. I’d like to own another someday. My 535 was similarly ratty, but with the winter package it had an LSD and was pretty good a slaying the rear tires in empty parking lots and made some cool noises too

ignoramous > Chuckles 02/26/2018 at 12:27

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I’ll add to that and say you should go for the Yaris iA (previously the Scion iA). It is the Mazda 2 DJ sedan chassis plus you can get it well equipped (Navigation?!?) with a 6 speed manual for less that 16k new. Much cheaper if you get one used. Its a hilariously slow but loads of fun around the corners!

Chuckles > ignoramous 02/26/2018 at 12:48

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It’ll probably lose points for not being a hatchback, but I agree it’s worth checking out. It might be a little too new to find one in the specified budget of around $3,500.

Lokiparts > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 13:27

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I would also throw out a vote for a Honda Fit but personally if I was looking for something with those attributes in that price range, I’d probably strongly consider an EP3 Civic Si. The last true Civic Si hatchback.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/cto/d/2002-honda-civic-si-ep3/6485914603.html

I’d probably keep looking for a more stock one that that though.

Noah - Now with more boost. > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 13:27

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Yep there’s no way I could buy that car for $4400 again! It was one of 200ish 5 speeds from the 88/89 years with that new 3.5 motor. I had no idea how rare it was at the time though.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 15:44

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First off, the Yaris is a great car, definitely consider it on your list! It was on my short list before I got my current car.

Secondly, there is not a huge aftermarket for them (at least my generation), and people will probably get tired of me for suggesting it, but if you want a nice, basic, reliable, cheap hatchback...why not a 2006-2010 Hyundai Accent hatch (or Kia Rio of the same vintage as they are based on the exact same platform with different fascia)? Yes, I know most people will say “But it’s an Accent”, and no, they aren’t sports cars, but the higher trims will come with the usual basic stuff you would want (cruise, A/C, stereo with Aux input), they are very reliable, pretty good on gas, can be had with a 5-spd, can be somewhat fun to drive hard, and can be had for some pretty cheap prices (especially if you are willing to get a stripper model with few options).

The gas mileage isn’t as good as some of the Japanese cars, but I regularly get around 33-39mpg in mine depending on the driving. Mine has not done me wrong in 80,000kms and it cost me all of $6900 all-in in 2013 with only 54,000kms on it used! The Accent hatches only came in 2-door form, the Rio hatches came in 4-door form and you already have (judging from your comment on your wife’s old Hyundai) a positive experience with them so far...? :)

thejustache > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/26/2018 at 16:09

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This is an interesting take, and I suppose I should give it some thought. My wife’s car actually is a 2005 accent hatch (:

I guess I more or less ignored it because while we’ve had a great experience with ours, and I know 2006 starts another generation, I’ve never owned a Toyota (or a Honda for those that have suggested a fit) and I like sampling different makes when I have the chance. That’s no reason to not even consider another Hyundai though, thanks for the suggestion!

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 16:16

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No problem! I’ve had good experience with mine and the 2-door hatch version would fit what you are looking for, so I thought it was a decent option on all fronts! :)

Stephenson Valve Gear > thejustache 02/26/2018 at 21:09

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My wife has had 3 of the little Yaris’s over the years, and really liked them... at least up until the 2012 update. She was a fan of the very convenient cupholders, tons of storage places in the dash, and center speedo of the early versions. She felt that they ruined them in ‘12, and finally replaced her last Yaris (a 2011 model) with a Fit. The first Yaris was a 2 door hatchback with a 5 speed manual, and it was my favorite. The last two were automatic 4 door hatchbacks, and while they are fine little cars, they just didn’t quite have the appeal for me that the 2 door manual did.

Still, Yaris #3 did 111 MPH (indicated) on the Bonneville Salt Flats:

I don’t think you would regret getting a Yaris for what you want...

thejustache > Stephenson Valve Gear 02/27/2018 at 09:18

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Very cool, thank you!